Like I'm down with the Illuminati ([info]crystaldawn) wrote,
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You Don't Know IchiHime Shippers, vol 1

So in the interest of promoting a better understanding of the elusive (but much discussed) IchiHime shipper in their native environment, I decided to put together this informative fandom pamphlet (with the help of my friends list, of course, since I can't pretend to speak for an entire ship).

See, we often see blatant misinformation - dare I say, outright lies - disseminated about us and ours to fandom at large. Many of the IchiHime Boogiemen heh, I keep typing 'Boobiemen' put forth to scare fandom onto the 'straight and narrow' of shipping, as it were, are actually nothing more than Strawmen set up to make the opposing viewpoint look better and more attractive. A Strawman can also be taking the half-baked opinions of one supporter of an idea and proclaiming them as being what all supporters of the idea think, simply because they're the easiest to argue against or dismiss. So here today, let's set some Strawmen alight, shall we?

Strawman #1: IchiHime fans are viewing the manga from a Western Perspective because they don't understand Japanese culture.

False. First of all, several IchiHime fans are actually of an Asian persuasion, although not necessarily Japanese. My own boyfriend spent several years of his youth in Japan, so if I have questions about Japanese culture, I can simply turn around and ask him. At least one of the IchiHime folks on my flist has a degree in Japanese and Linguistics (although I won't name her since I didn't ask if I could).

Secondly, that would be assuming that the IchiHime pairing is somehow exclusively Western and contradicts Japanese culture in some way. Actually, I'll let the IchiRuki girl on my flist, [info]turtlemonkey, address this one since she does it so beautifully:

It was long accepted in the Ichiruki fandom that we actually were a lot more western inspired whereas Ichihime was more eastern. *PUTS ON GLASSES OF SERIOUSNESS*

The western Generation Y grew up after generations of feminism finally paid off and suddenly media had a huge inflation of very strong, very powerful, assertive and outspoken women characters to the point of almost oversaturating the market. We went from Eliza Maza as young kids to Mulan to Xena as kids to Buffy to Captain Janeway as teenagers. This meant that generation Y grew up with the idea that relationships were at their best with an aggressive, forward woman and we respond to it accordingly. This is very western, and very unique to this generation. Ichiruki easily captures basically the exact 'formula' we of the west were fed throughout our entire lives. It's a humorous, slaptstick rivalry between a strong man and a strong woman. It is our generation's idea of the ideal relationship.

Eastern, moreso Japanese, standards have always, and everyone who reads manga can back me up on this, tended to favour more feminine, subdued and gentle women. Not weak, not weak at all, but gentle, and this is a key difference. I was just rereading Cardcaptor Sakura and when Sakura became the love interest for Syaoran, you instantly saw him picturing her in a more gentle, kind and fragile light, much like her mother Nadeisco who is even named for this trope. Just as how Ichigo and Rukia are perfectly tailored for young Western audience, Ichigo and Orihime pretty much encapsulate all the standards of an ideal Eastern/Japanese couple. He's brash and strong and valiant and she's gentle and calm, brave without being a threat but strong enough to support him. Think of the Samurai's wife: She's meant to be beautiful and an object of both envy in her beauty and awe of her kindness, but strong and wise to back up and support her warrior husband.


Interestingly, the Wikipedia article on samurai backs Turtlemonkey up on this point. On the topic of the ideal samurai wife, it says:

Traits valued in women of the samurai class were humility, obedience, self-control, strength, and loyalty. Ideally, a samurai wife would be skilled at managing property, keeping records, dealing with financial matters, educating the children (and perhaps servants, too), and caring for elderly parents or in-laws that may be living under her roof. Confucian law, which helped define personal relationships and the code of ethics of the warrior class required that a woman show subservience to her husband, filial piety to her parents, and care to the children. Too much love and affection was also said to indulge and spoil the youngsters. Thus, a woman was also to exercise discipline.

Anyone who's read the I Ching or any of the works of Confucianism or Taoism can also tell you what's expected of the female half of a couple on the Eastern side of the world - humility, love, serenity, grace, frugality, and practicality. She is expected to support, advise, and encourage her husband, just like a minister advises a king. Likewise, her husband is expected to listen to his wife, provide for her, and provide a steady hand for his family. They're both expected to discipline the other when they step out of line.

One could argue that Rukia, in her role as a Kuchiki woman, exhibits some or all of those traits. But those are not the traits that fandom sees and praises her for. The traits Rukia is generally revered for in fandom are those that are regarded as good traits for a Western (in particular, American) woman: self-reliance, hard work, an aggressive personality, and an emphasis on reliability and strength over gentleness or good looks. While none of those are necessarily good or bad things, they are also an indication of the culture viewing the character; Western audiences tend to pick out traits that Westerners like in general.

As for Orihime, she does exhibit the traditionally ideal traits of an Eastern woman. She is gentle, kind, and compassionate to a fault. When she talks to Ichigo for the first time in canon, she's been actively engaged in shopping for dinner - a typical duty of a frugal wife. She is emotionally strong, but not strong enough in battle to be 'threatening' to the male leads. Also of note is that, just like a samurai's wife, she doesn't fight with a sword. Swords are instruments of murder, and murder is not for ladies - self-defense is. Similarly, I believe Orihime not having a sword is a statement on her passive nature - she is not a killer and her powers are not meant to kill.

Strawman #2: IchiHime Shippers see IchiHime as a Disney fairy tale.

False with a side of misleading.

First and foremost, there's absolutely nothing wrong with liking Disney movies. In fact, Osamu Tezuka, the Godfather of Anime, was a noted Disney fanboy, as are many, many Japanese. And while one could argue that many Disney flicks are problematic on a feminist, racial, or cultural level (Mulan 2 anyone?), one should also keep in mind that Disney movies - nay, any media aimed at small children - are simply a reflection of the culture in which we currently live. This certainly doesn't give them a free pass on problematic themes, but they're far from the devil incarnate in this area. I'd also bet you'd be hard-pressed to find an American girl that didn't like at least one of the Princess movies. Yeah, they exist, but most of us did watch and enjoy them at some point in our childhood.

Secondly, this seems to be implying that IchiHime shippers view Ichigo and Orihime as a perfect fairy tale prince and princess because we don't constantly rehash their supposed 'flaws'. No, we acknowledge very well that they both have flaws - they just don't happen to be the flaws that the other vocal part of fandom thinks they have.

I'll be the first to tell you that Orihime has chronically low self-esteem. She doesn't think herself worthy of her friends' affection, and you can see this when she's genuinely shocked that they came to rescue her. She even admits that it upset her that they did at first. This is probably a result of her odd personality coupled with her odd looks creating a cycle of bullying at school that was only broken when Tatsuki started standing up for her. This doesn't mean she's too weak, lazy or co-dependent to stand up for herself or others; on the contrary, she stands up for Tatsuki when she's in trouble because she wants to return the kindness her best friend has shown her. However, when she herself is bullied on her own account by Loly and Menoly, she does nothing but tell them firmly to leave her alone. Why is this? Is it because she's weak or stupid?

NO. It's because that's how you deal with bullies. Take it from someone who was bullied for pretty much her entire school life: when you don't have the ability to call bullies out and humiliate them into leaving you alone, the next best thing to do is to not give them the satisfaction of a response. Orihime couldn't have beat Loly and Menoly up at her power level. Crying or showing fear would've encouraged them. The best thing she could've done was simply to ignore them to the best of her ability. Her response wasn't weak; it took a lot of fortitude to stand up and not bow out like she did.

The other major character flaw that I'd say Ichigo and Orihime have (and I think our side of fandom agrees with this) is that they don't rely on their friends enough. Orihime bottles things up out of fear of being a burden and refuses to let her friends help her with her problems. She tells Sora as his hollow is dying that she didn't want him to see her tears, so she only told him good things from school. She held in her jealousy of Rukia to the point that she broke down in front of Matsumoto. She was content to sit on the sidelines even though she hated it just because Urahara told her she was a burden. And finally, she went to Hueco Mundo without even so much as trying to get help because she thought that by sacrificing herself, it would give her friends a little time to get ready for battle.

For his part, Ichigo tends to think he's a damn cowboy and try to do everything himself (as has been pretty well-illustrated in the second set of Wingless/Winged Eagles chapters). He blames his nine-year-old self for not single-handedly defeating the hollow that ate his mom. He dismisses his best friend that's had his back for years out of hand in the fight with D-Roy. He tried to fight his inner hollow on his own to the point that it almost killed him. Even when fighting Hiyori, his inner monologue was something like "I can figure it out myself if I just keep watching her enough". When Yamamoto tells him he can't go after Orihime, he tells him to go fuck himself, that he'll charge into enemy territory against insanely overpowered opponents on his own. And when Chad and Ishida try to come along, he tells them that they're not strong enough and should just let him handle it by himself. He's finally coming out of it in recent chapters - thank the lord - but it's been a long time coming.

And while that might not sound like severe faults to a Western audience, in an Eastern society, and in all practicality, they are large faults. We as Westerners (and Americans in particular) are raised to value the relation of family and spouse as the only relationships that are really 'worth' much. Friendships don't count for much around here outside of grade school, and people who value friendships are generally seen as hokey and lame. Edit: For people who're looking for more information on this claim, this book by a Harvard sociology professor is a good place to start (thanks for the link, [info]lady_ganesh!). If you're looking for info on how this affects women in particular, The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf is a great place to start. Edit^2: There's also more discussion of this down in the comments, if you're interested.

Moreover, we are taught from an early age that we can be whatever we want, as long as we work hard and give it our best shot! Everything depends on the effort you put in! If you didn't get that dream job, you just didn't try hard enough! We value self-reliance to an absurd degree, and that's not a very valuable trait in Japanese culture - in fact, it's seen as being just as rude and selfish as Shinji tells Ichigo he's being in chapter 389 for trying to hog the fight against Aizen.

Contrast this to Japan, where the culture is wholly more community-based than ours. Social conformity is a huge deal there, as is being a social outcast. The needs of the community outweigh the needs of the individual by several factors of order (hello, the entire Soul Society arc, anyone?). Friends, community members, nakama are all extremely important in Japan - which is probably why you see the theme emphasized over and over and over again across several anime and manga.

In short, in the context of the story, both Ichigo and Orihime's extreme self-reliance is a bad thing and is a fault that they both need to, and are in the process of overcoming.

Thirdly, back to the whole Prince/Princess topic, the kind of 'perfect romance' that this dichotomy seems to imply would bore a whole helluva lot of IchiHime shippers. The dynamics of their relationship are best simply because they both have flaws. To copy from something I told [info]sarajayechan once:

Part of the point is that Ichigo and Orihime are facing their inner demons (in Ichigo's case literally) and each other's (again, literally here).

Part of the crux of the pairing in the story and as a concept is that you can't really love someone until you learn to accept what they are, warts and all. Ichigo's not a perfect prince. He has a hyper-destructive monster living inside him that basically is him, and he knows it. And so does Orihime - one of the biggest moments in the Hueco Mundo arc was her seeing his mask for the first time and having a minor freak out over it. Nel kicked her in the ass for being afraid of him and she realized what she was doing wrong and stopped. The other big moment was when he went uber!hollow and she started beating herself up because she thought it was her fault. After he went back to normal, she smiled at him, which leads me to believe she's not going to turn her back on him for it.


Without that tension - in short, with the characters both being perfect and princely/princessly - the relationship would be boring. It would be a find-and-replace with every other pairing in history and wouldn't have anything that originally drew us to the pairing in the first place.

Strawman #3: IchiHime is anti-feminist and IchiHime Shippers all want women back in the kitchen.

Hilariously false. Feminism is not, nor should it ever be, a celebration solely of Women Being Strong, Because Strong Is Good. Nor should it be used as a hammer to insult women we deem 'inferior' or 'not strong enough'. Nor should femininity always be associated with weakness and badness.

Feminism is loving and celebrating every woman, regardless of how girly, weak, or inferior we think she is. Regardless of how misogynist we may think she is. She is a woman, therefore she is 'good enough'.

Feminism is also about giving women the opportunity to chose their own path in life. Some women are going to be brokers, astronauts, stock car drivers, miners, bartenders, and CEOs. Some women are going to be housewives. As long as they have the opportunity to chose whether to be a housewife or a lawyer (or both at different times), that's feminism. Neither one is wrong; it's about what's right for that particular woman.

Likewise, if Orihime wants to open a bakery? Good for her, that's awesome. If she wants to marry Ichigo and have babies? Good for her, that's awesome too. If she wants to do both (which, all signs point to her wanting to do both at some point), awesome! Have your cake and bake it, too!

I also feel that I should point out that Japanese and American ideals on womanhood and feminism vary quite a bit. Yes, American feminists see the Japanese as being hopelessly sexist as a society - this is even occasionally a hot topic on feminist communities. This is frequently reflected in the anime and manga we see; women are allowed to kick ass, be astronauts, race car drivers, karate champions, but there's often a catch to it. They almost always have to reassert their femininity at some point so that they're not threatening, whether it's by wearing skirts, liking cute things, or openly crushing on boys (Tatsuki, Sailor Jupiter, Angel Daisy, and Tenjou Utena all spring to mind here). There's also an expectation that these women will settle down, get married, and have babies at some point in their lives; as much as Americans don't like to admit it, that particular expectation is even still with us today (just ask anyone who's decided not to have kids).

And as a final note on this topic, man - if being IchiHime automatically revokes your feminist street cred, I need to call NOW and get my membership money back from them. I'll tell them my card is in the mail. Yes, I have one.

Strawman #4: FLOL is a bashing comm and IchiHime shippers bash all the time.

False and misleading. First of all, shippers from all walks of fandom bash, behave like idiots and wank. One idiot fangirl from one ship does not a wanky ship make.

Secondly, while I've seen many claims of Rukia bashing floating around TV Tropes and Encyclopedia Dramatica, the only link to a Rukia-bashing board run by IchiHime fans they had was a dead link. Other than that, I have yet to see Rukia-bashing by... well, anyone, really. Not to say she doesn't get bashed - there are people who'll bash anything - but I haven't seen it.

As for FLOL's opinions on Rukia, you can join and go here to see for yourself, or you can take my word on the poll results. Out of 212 IchiHime fans who were polled on their opinion on Rukia, 101 (47%) said she was absolutely awesome, 51 (24%) said she's awesome as long as she doesn't interfere with IchiHime, 40 (18%) said they have no opinion either way, 12 (5%) said they just don't like her, and 8 (3%) said they absolutely hate her. A combined total of 8% really isn't enough to color an entire portion of fandom, sorry to say. More than that, the thread itself is pretty civil. The people who didn't like her tended to say things like "Her character just wasn't my type" or "I liked her, but her more vocal fans have soured me on her".

As for FLOL encouraging bashing, that's also untrue. Here is the list of rules, but in case non-members can't view it, I'll copy the relevant ones here:

10. Discussion about Ichigo and Rukia as a couple is partially allowed here, but speaking negatively about the ship or the fans that support them is not allowed. Anything the mods and I deem as "speaking negatively about" will be edited or deleted.
14. Please do not post links to any sites or forums that are Anti-IchiHime. Post will be either edited or deleted.
15. Do not quote members from other message boards to mock them.
16. Do not discuss what is said on other message boards in a negative manner.
22. Do NOT bash characters. Anything the mods or myself see as bashing a character, your post will either be edited or deleted.
26.Do not take comments said on here and post them elsewhere to mock, bitch about, or shart shit with.


Call me crazy, but six whole rules banning bashing and wanking doesn't seem like something a hate board would put into place. And yes, they do enforce them.

But just to clarify, let's go over some of the stuff we IchiHime shippers actually do. We do state when we dislike a character and what reasons we have for it, if any. I'm not fond of Barragan because I think he's boring. That doesn't mean I'm bashing him or disrespecting his fans. No one is going to like every character ever, and they are entitled to their opinion. It's when you begin to insult other people's opinions that it becomes a bad thing.

We do make friends locked posts about people we run into who are especially egregious or irritating in pushing their opinions onto us. Unfortunately for the rest of fandom, friends locked posts are rather heavily banned from places like Fandom_Wank, and for good reason. If we friends lock our bitching, that means we just want to bitch and don't want to start shit. And hey, we're perfectly within our rights to talk shit about people we want to avoid under our own friends lock - that's no skin off their nose.

We try very hard not to make sweeping generalizations about entire sections of fandom and their opinions. If I were to say that all UlquiHime fans are destined to have shitty, abusive relationships, I'm pretty sure that [info]copper_cakes would bitchslap me nine ways to Sunday. If I were to say that all IshiHime fans are projecting their codependence or whatever onto the pairing, I would feel very bad because [info]cherry_chiicake ships it and she's been an awesome friend to me for ten years now. (and for the record, I was going for the worst things I could possibly say there that would make no logical sense. I FEEL KIND OF BAD ABOUT TYPING THEM, GUYS :|) Long story short, almost all of us have friends who ship differently than we do. We also put up with enough stupid, untrue generalizations slung at us on a daily basis to want to avoid using them.

Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English.

Misleading. College degrees are little proof of reading comprehension, if any. A degree in English also does not guarantee good reading comprehension, particularly of a Japanese shounen manga. What a college degree is proof of is that the possessor of said degree had the time, money, and ability to do course work required to receive that degree. And unless you went to a very interesting college, I sincerely doubt they had 'How to Read Manga 101' on the course listing. Quick, someone who went to SCAD - is this a course there?

Furthermore, I bristle at the very heavy implication that I am somehow intellectually inferior to someone with a degree in English. The IchiHime shippers I've talked to come from a variety of backgrounds. One has a degree in linguistics and Japanese. One has a degree in Applied Science. Another has a degree in communications and journalism (if she doesn't mind me claiming her for these purposes). And I personally graduated the toughest school in the US Navy (check out the course listing for hilarity's sake) and went on to graduate an equally difficult school dedicated specifically to radiological controls work. Ask me why a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity is important to YOU. I dare you. It'll be fun.

I also see "this essay would get an F in college" tossed at IchiHime shippers with frightening regularity. Newsflash, most fandom essays are poorly formatted, poorly researched, and riddled with an absolutely sickening amount of fallacious reasoning. If you have to rely on an overabundance of manga panels with squiggles drawn on them to make your point, then you are not writing an 'essay' - you are posting manga pictures with words explaining what an intelligent reader would've been able to figure out on their own. Furthermore, I would rather have someone link to Wikipedia (which does actually require outside sources) than make outrageous claims and not back them up at all. No, Wiki links aren't allowed for school research papers, but a school research paper is not a fandom essay.

Here, let me say that again to make sure we all understand it. Fandom essays are not school research papers. They are not good for college credits. Making an essay that a lot of people agree with does not mean you made a good essay. And most importantly, you are not a college professor and do not get to grade other people's essays like one with any authority. Unless you went to college and got the credentials necessary to teach Composition there, you have no business 'grading' another fan's essay - especially if your own are riddled with spelling and grammar errors, faulty premises, debate fallacies, and ad hominem attacks out the wazoo.

Strawman #6: IchiHime Shippers think the rejected pilot is canon and proof of their pairing.

Misleading. While I can't speak for every IchiHime shipper out there, the ones I've talked to seem to agree that, while the pilot chapter was cute, it has no place in an actual analysis of the main story itself.

We do seem to think it has a place as supplemental work, which is completely different. Even though the pilot was rejected, certain parts of it were carried over into the main story - Orihime's father figure, who is now a hollow, attempts to kill her because he's jealous of Ichigo's affect on her. Considering this was pretty much the first multi-chapter arc in the story and the basic structure of that story was left intact (right down to some of the dialogue - Orihime's father and Sora even share a few lines), I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Kubo thought it was pretty important.

But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think any IchiHime shipper necessarily needs to use the pilot chapter for anything when the major gist of it carried over into the Sora chapters. This strawman keeps getting beaten to death because, frankly, it's easier to point at a rejected pilot and go "SEE, IT'LL NEVER BE CANON HA HA" than it is to try and discredit Sora's story, which will always be canon. In short, anything we could use the pilot for, we could use Sora's story for, but better.

Strawman #7: IchiHime Shippers only ship Renji with Rukia to separate her from Ichigo.

False. This implies that RenRuki is a faulty ship on its own, and that people only ship it out of an obligation to Pair the Spares with Renji and Rukia. This is heavily untrue on its own - it's pretty well canon that Renji is in love with Rukia and just about everything he's ever done in his adult life has been to get closer to her. That by itself is a pretty solid reason to ship a pairing if I ever saw one; indeed, I've seen several IchiRuki fans that also enjoy RenRuki.

It also implies that IchiHime shippers are so insecure in their ship that they feel threatened by Rukia. Well, no, not exactly. Most of us simply don't see IchiRuki and would much prefer to spend our time discussing a pairing we care about. We don't need to spend our time tearing IchiRuki apart - we're more than happy with what canon has given us. Don't believe me? Go look at our list of Essays and Manifestos - this is actually open to non-members, so you can see it if you don't join and look, I'm on there twice! You know you want to look! :D There are a couple essays about Rukia in the context of being Ichigo's friend, a couple of her in the context of matchmaker, a couple of Ishida in the context of matchmaker, and a couple about the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, but you'll notice that there is a distinct lack of essays about ships we don't like. Imagine that.

But I can give you a few reasons why IchiHime shippers tend to ship RenRuki as well. As stated above, Renji's feelings for Rukia are canon, so that's a big push right there. But there's also the same undertone with RenRuki as there is with IchiHime - that of a man challenging a protector figure (in both the cases of Orihime and Rukia, it's a big brother figure; with Orihime, it moves on to being Grimmjow, Ulquiorra, and ultimately Aizen) for the right to court his girl of choice. It's a general undercurrent and tension that both relationships have, and that makes them attractive (as well as the IshiNemu relationship, which might explain why you often see these three pairings clustered together). It should hardly be surprising that fans of one pairing would then become fans of the other. And for the record? Most IchiHime fans I've spoken to shipped RenRuki before they started liking IchiHime (I know I'm in this faction personally).

Strawman #8: IchiHime Shippers hate Ulquiorra because he threatens their ship.

False. In addition to the list of essays provided above, I can personally tell you that I don't actually care enough about Ulquiorra to feel threatened by him. (Although I do admit to fangirling the ever-loving shit out of him in Soul Carnival 2 - oh EmoSpada, you look so much better in color with your freaky green-and-yellow eyes. Your Burning Attack is also cool as fuck.) It is entirely possible to not have feelings one way or the other about a character that has nothing to do with your chosen ship, believe it or not.

Actually, in this thread, FLOL discusses why they do or don't think Ulquiorra will return from the dead. There's a lot of "I think his story's done" and "he just didn't appeal to me" and "he had an awful lot of time spent on him in the story", but no "I hate him, I'm glad he's dead, baww" that I can see. And speculation that he may come back in the 4th movie, and general agreement that it would make an awesome 4th movie if that were the case. And Copper fangirling Ulquibat as usual. XD

And over here, we have a poll asking who the respondents' least favorite Espada is. Ulquiorra took a whopping 25% of the vote with 11 votes, tying him with Zommari as the least popular Espada. Runners up were Absolute Monsters Szayel Aporro Grantz and Aaroniero Arlululukeyboardsmash with 5 votes and 11% each. Starrk got a whopping 0% of the vote, followed closely by Grimmjow and Barragan who got 1 vote each (spoilers: I was the vote on Barragan 8D). Nnoitra and Harribel each got 3 votes, and Yammy got 4. Again, no bashing - just a lot of "I didn't like Ulquiorra because he mindfucked a 15 year old girl" and "I thought Harribel was the personification of fanservice" and lots and lots of talk about Zommari. One person mentioned they disliked Ulquiorra because he 'had shiptease with Orihime', but hey, we can't all be perfect.

Really, if you're going to try and deduce anything from those numbers, I think your best bet would be that we really fucking love Starrk and Grimmjow as do all good people.

Strawman #9: IchiHime Shippers are all huge perverts that love to talk about sex and how good at it Ichigo and Orihime would be.

Misleading. All I can say to that one is "Welcome to the internet, honey". If you dislike people talking about sex and their favorite characters *gasp* doing sex, your stay here is going to be long and tedious indeed.

More to the point, and I hope this post illustrates this clearly, we talk about lots of things. Our chosen pairing engaging in *gasp* coital relations being one of them among many. I know, this is totally scandalous, but I think your heart can take the shock.

Beyond that, I think this is the point where I point out that sex is a natural, healthy human function and nothing to be ashamed of. It's okay for men to enjoy sex. Hey, it's also okay for women to enjoy sex! Informing me that I enjoy sex and reading about fictional characters having it is like telling me the sky is blue and the grass is green - yes, it's true, why should I particularly care?

The implication here, though, is that sex is all IchiHime shippers care about, which is a pretty baseless statement at its heart. If all we cared about was reading sex between fictional characters, without regard to their personality, why would we adhere to a ship in the first place? Why would we even read a shounen manga like Bleach that has no sex in it? We'd be better off reading Sei So Tsui Dan Sha, aka the Bob Sapp Detachable Penis Manga which, by the way, you should read.

Strawman #10: IchiHime Shippers have nothing to their ship, so they're constantly stealing from the IchiRuki side of fandom.

False. I'm not even sure what the basis of this one is, but let me assure you that I don't read or look at IchiRuki fanwork because... I don't like IchiRuki? I couldn't tell you what the IchiRuki side of fandom does, other than what I've seen on [info]capslock_bleach and [info]bleachness, because I quite frankly don't care what they do.

Strawman #11: IchiHime Shippers think they're reading Twilight and Ichigo and Orihime are Edward and Bella.

False. This one is just. Seriously? Let's bash Twilight and IchiHime at the same time, it'll be SUPER POPULAR!

First off, there's nothing worse about reading Twilight than there is your garden variety shoujo manga or romance novel. Yes, I've read it. Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, I thought it was fucking hilarious for reasons SMeyer probably didn't intend. Reading Twilight, contrary to popular belief, is not indicative of illiteracy, stupidity, or horrible taste in literature. I finished the first three books and moved on to Creation of the Gods and Paradise Lost - what was your point again?

Secondly, comparing IchiHime to Edward/Bella is a false comparison at best. The characters act nothing alike - indeed, I'm rather fond of Ichigo and Orihime. I thought Edward and Bella were the two weakest characters in Twilight. Sure, Ichigo has a protective streak - but I'm fairly sure that it doesn't extend to removing the engine from his girlfriend's car to keep her from seeing a boy he doesn't like. He also doesn't sparkle like a Lisa Frank unicorn on the fourth of July, but that's neither here nor there, is it?

Really, I'm just addressing this one because someone brought it to my attention and I thought it was too hilarious not to include.

Wow, that turned huge. ANY ICHIHIME SHIPPERS WANNA COME UP TO THE ALTAR FOR TESTIMONIALS?
Tags: essay, ichihime

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[info]eloni

January 24 2010, 08:42:54 UTC 2 years ago

Oh man, this was unexpectedly fun to read. I'm eagerly waiting for the responses. *cough*

One person mentioned they disliked Ulquiorra because he 'had shiptease with Orihime', but hey, we can't all be perfect.

Not sure if I should give out names here, but anyone who've met her knows that she is a, um, special case. Let's just say AGP doesn't even come close to her.

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 08:46:26 UTC 2 years ago

I AM SURE THEY ARE A COMIN'.

I'm not even sure who it was, but nah, don't bother - taking one person's easily discredited opinion and holding it up as the gospel truth of That Faction is the definition of a strawman.

Besides, every fandom's got a couple people that make everyone else cringe. That's the way of the world.

[info]terpzilla

January 24 2010, 08:51:30 UTC 2 years ago

You know, I have the ships I like and the ships I don't like, and while if asked I could blah blah 8D on them all day for the most part I don't really see a point in explaining. Though I've never been one to actively participate in any fandom, I mostly quietly watch, maybe provide some commentary and go back to my own little corner.

Anyway, the Rukia/Ichigo/Orihime dynamic rather reminds me of similar themes I've seen in other works; what first comes to mind is Fate/Stay Night. Generally, you can have it so that the hero can be romantically involve with two women more like Rukia who actively fight, or with the childhood friend girl-next-door. The Aerith/Cloud/Tifa triangle is pretty similar, though the fighter/gentle homegirl traits are flipper with the new girl and childhood friend.

I... think I have a point with this. I don't really see the point of bashing one ship or the other when both have weight, one isn't more canon than the other, and no one is anyone's soulmate (except for like, Starrk and Lilynette, somewhat). I see Ichigo and Rukia as partners on the battlefield; Ichigo and Orihime appealed to me as a pairing because of how normal it would be once the battles or over, or if neither developed powers. Though in that role Orihime shares some traits with Tatsuki, who's the actual childhood friend.

Anyway, I would hate to think just because I prefer a different pairing automatically means I detest strong women, an uneducated, etc, and it's pretty disappointed to hear that some people actually think that way. Or that discussion gets so heated about a goddamn shonen manga.

Speaking of discussion, I most intrigued with the Espada (and Zommari!) discussion mentioned in this, and will be reading on that shortly. And god I can't believe you just had to pimp out that manga!

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 08:58:06 UTC 2 years ago

Oh man, I'm so glad I wasn't the only one that the Fate/Stay Night romance... dodecahedron reminded of IchiRukiHime! I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY SOMETIMES. Aeirth/Cloud/Tifa also reminds me of it, yeah.

And yeah, Bleach isn't a manga about OMG SOULMATES, it's a manga about talking swords and kicking ass and NAKAMA!!1!

GO READ, I think that's the most anyone's ever talked about Zommari, EVER. I have to admit, the biggest reason I couldn't vote for him in good conscience as my least favorite was because of Hueco Mundo Cup. HE HAD THE BEST EPISODES.

BOB SAPP DEMANDED IT.

[info]qable

January 24 2010, 08:51:43 UTC 2 years ago

I'm just here to compliment you on spelling Sei So Tsui Dan Sha correctly. Carry on!

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 08:59:10 UTC 2 years ago

M-Matching icons?!

I almost got it entirely correct on my own - I just left out the Tsui part. I had to open the taken list to make sure I got it right. :(

[info]qable

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]matalinhaga

January 24 2010, 09:05:26 UTC 2 years ago

Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills

I don't know if it's common, but an Ulquiorra/Orihime(/Grimmjaw) shipper like me was also implied to lack reading comprehension skills. Then again, maybe it's because I do find Ichigo and Orihime cute together? Subliminal IchiHime-shipping sniffed from the recesses of my consciousness, perhaps?

And I didn't have to write an IchiHime essay to get it, just an Orihime post in reaction to her more vocal bashers.

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 09:09:39 UTC 2 years ago

This is one that's so tiresome because I see it so much. And it's usually coming from someone that can't string together a coherent sentence without a single typo to save their damn life. It's like, hi pot, I hear you're black today?

And god, how could you defend her? I mean, I know she's one half(/third) of a pairing you like, but that's just going overboard, man. [/sarcasm][/4am]

[info]arrows_and_arks

January 24 2010, 09:25:38 UTC 2 years ago

::claps:: A-freaking-mazing. And THANK YOU for taking your time to do this. There's sooooo much word I can't even begin tell you how hard you rocked in debunking all of these false notions. XD Just want to add my own two cents to a couple of these points if you don't mind. ^^

Strawman #3: IchiHime is anti-feminist and IchiHime Shippers all want women back in the kitchen.

Given how the great majority of us are hardcore Orihime fans who have been wanting to see Orihime use Tsubaki in a real, bonified FIGHT and wish to see her achieve her goal of being able to FIGHT along side Ichigo and her friends, I hardly see how anybody was able to spread this lie around.

Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English.

Because having an ENGLISH degree gives one the credentials to read a JAPANESE comic book aimed at pubescent boys, right? THE LOGIC IS SO AMAZING I'M BLOWN AWAY BY ITS SHEER AWESOMENESS.

Strawman #7: IchiHime Shippers only ship Renji with Rukia to separate her from Ichigo.

WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THIS. SO MUCH. By the time I was reading through SS, I didn't like IchiRuki, but it had nothing to do with my already blossoming love of IchiHime. In fact, if Renji didn't exist, I wouldn't have shipped her with a.n.y.b.o.d.y. because outside of having a rather interesting freak out when she felt Renji's reiatsu failing while she was still a prisoner, she hasn't shown ANY sort of romantic feelings for anybody. She's probably THE most ambiguous character in Bleach imho. And if I wanted to just chuck Rukia to whoever (had Renji not exisisted) it would have been Gin. Because I like dark, messed up pairings like that. But even then there's the little fact that if I hated Rukia as a character at all, I wouldn't be shipping her with anybody period. Because, you know, it just makes damn SENSE not to ship somebody I hate with somebody I like. Why would I want to give them any sort of happiness if I hated them?

Strawman #8: IchiHime Shippers hate Ulquiorra because he threatens their ship.

No. I hate fanon!Ulquiorra. You know, the Christ-like figure who mindraped Orihime into becoming a "strong girl" and became the hero during his fight with Ichigo after toying with him cruelly and then killed him in an even more cruel fashion in front of said girl? Yeah, that guy. HATE that guy. LOATHE that guy. But KT's version? All I don't like is the WAY he died. As an Espada and a heartless villain, he. was. awesome. :D

Strawman #9: IchiHime Shippers are all huge perverts that love to talk about sex and how good at it Ichigo and Orihime would be.

LOL. We have 29 (or, more eloquently put: XXIX) versions of the IchiHime FC and then suddenly, we dedicate ONE version (30 = XXX **wiggles eyebrows**), completely for the lulz, to "sex talk," and we're condemned as perverts who have nothing else to talk about but sex and how good our characters are at it. However did we manage to keep THAT up for 29 versions beforehand? LOL.

[info]arrows_and_arks

January 24 2010, 09:26:09 UTC 2 years ago

(continued cuz I'm freaking wordy. ::sigh::)

Strawman #10: IchiHime Shippers have nothing to their ship, so they're constantly stealing from the IchiRuki side of fandom.

I can only speak for what I remember of BA long ago, but here goes. Back in the day when I used to either troll myself (and this was YEARS ago, mind you) or, more semi-recently used to listen to my friends talk about stuff in their trollish findings, I could show you the time/dates WE, the IchiHime FC, posted topics or fangirled over something versus when the IchiRuki FC (or, and wayyyy less often cuz it wasn't as active, the IshiHime FC) would start talking about the same exact thing. And 95% of the time their discussion of the same thing came, wouldn't you guess it, after we started talking about it. I'm sure plenty of times it was purely coincidental, but still. LO-freaking-L.

Also, in general? We have the whole Arrancar Arc (<--That's in Kubo terms; ours would be the Arrancar, Hueco four years here.) to fangirl over because it's riddled with like 100 really-fangirl-worthy moments between Ichigo and Orihime. I dunno what Bleach everybody else is reading, by my version (or, rather, OneManga's version ::lmao::) is full of shit I've been fangirling hardcore over since I joined this ship over three years ago. XD

Strawman #11: IchiHime Shippers think they're reading Twilight and Ichigo and Orihime are Edward and Bella.

What? ::blinks:: ::re-reads:: I-just-what? I don't even understand, LOL. Who the fuck came up with something so hilariously and utterly stupid? ::keels over laughing:: XD

---

BTW, crystal, you're about to have THREE essays in that list, haha. :P

[info]numisma

January 24 2010, 09:46:42 UTC 2 years ago

*claps*

IchiHme shipper for going on five years now, right here.

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 10:10:21 UTC 2 years ago

WAT rly? I didn't know that! Or I did and I forgot. D'oh.

[info]numisma

2 years ago

[info]omg_its_fiore

January 24 2010, 10:32:30 UTC 2 years ago

Admittedly, when I first started reading the manga when it came out in the States, I assumed Ichigo was going to be shipped with Rukia on account of the story's initial setup. Once Orihime became a major character, however, I was very relieved! From a character standpoint, she and Ichigo just make more sense as a couple, and a gianthuge essay like yours merely articulates WHY they make sense!

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 10:45:34 UTC 2 years ago

YEAH, I was always told IchiRuki and IshiHime was canon and although I could just never see it no matter how hard I tried, I pretty much ignored any IchiHime hints until they came up and started slapping you in the face right about chapter 200. By the time I'd read the really blatant shit in chapters 237-239, I'd already read the Lust Arc and was just like. "Uhh. Wow. This is really freakin' blatant."

And then I shipped it.

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]dropsofgleam

January 24 2010, 12:54:03 UTC 2 years ago

//Strawman #3: IchiHime is anti-feminist and IchiHime Shippers all want women back in the kitchen.//

Considering how many IchiRuki fans of the vocal minority kind transform Rukia into an ultra-strong Possession Sue and then scream about how she MUST be paired-up with Ichigo or her life will NEVER EVER whole. . . Huh.

//Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English.//

What about IchiRuki fans who have no college degrees in English? By that logic, people, you're insulting your own shipmates.

// Strawman #6: IchiHime Shippers think the rejected pilot is canon and proof of their pairing.//

... I din't like it, actually. I FAR preferred it as Sora and Orihime's story, kthx.

//Strawman #7: IchiHime Shippers only ship Renji with Rukia to separate her from Ichigo.//

... How many times do I have to say that I SHIPPED RENRUKI FIRST AND FOREMOST?!

//Strawman #8: IchiHime Shippers hate Ulquiorra because he threatens their ship.//

I like Ulquiorra - *as the manipulative bastard he is in canon*, not as Orihime's Espada in Ash-made Armor. Same goes to Ishida, whom I love as the dork who can be a great teammate and friend and not for the Nice Guy (TM) whom Orihime owes a pity-fuck or something.

:D Great one!

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 18:35:15 UTC 2 years ago

Oh god, Possession Sue!Rukia, who needs Trophy Husband!Ichigo bugs me SO MUCH. If she was that much of a Strong Woman, she wouldn't need a man, nor does she deserve to have one gifted to her.

And same about Ulquiorra and Ishida. The Nice Guy undertones that "Ishida *deserves* Orihime" or "Orihime *owes it to* Ulquiorra to resurrect him" bug the living hell out of me. Guys, if you can't like your ship without thinking the woman owes the man something just because he decided to grace her with his presence? That's bad.

[info]siix0_beautiixo

January 24 2010, 14:25:36 UTC 2 years ago

SO MUCH FREAKING WORD. GAH I loved this, all of it.


'Strawman #3: IchiHime is anti-feminist and IchiHime Shippers all want women back in the kitchen.'

Because none of us have said that we wanted kick-ass Orihime with improved powers and have enough to kill even Aizen. None of us have said that we want self-doubt gone and self-blame gone Orihime who feels like she is worth more than a piece of chewed up gum. Nah we just want barefoot preggp Orihime who makes bean paste sandwiches all her life. RME.


'Strawman #7: IchiHime Shippers only ship Renji with Rukia to separate her from Ichigo.'

Because RenRuki is a FAIL ship all its own, right? We can't have our own reasons as to why we like them?

'Strawman #8: IchiHime Shippers hate Ulquiorra because he threatens their ship.'

PSHHHHH not really, i hate what the fandom turned Ulquiorra into, this martyred chibi no ouji while Ichigo was the bastard who killed him off. Ulquiorra was a villian, through and through, and i hate seeing when it's FAIL for Ichigo to kill him, but it was perfectly fine and good when Ulquiorra blasted a cero in his chest and threw him away like trash. He mindfucked the hell outta Orihime to the freaking end, and it kills me when they provide bullshit reasons why he didn't. (no offense Copper, you know i love you <3)

'Strawman #10: IchiHime Shippers have nothing to their ship, so they're constantly stealing from the IchiRuki side of fandom.'

Oh Good Lord, this argument again? We got a shitload of moments from the very beginning (and i'm not counting the rejected pilot LMAO) so there's no need to try to steal off of IchiRuki. GAH!

'Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English'

SO what about the other fanbases that don't? What about your own fanbase that doesn't? Way to insult them. XD

And i love Edward/Bella but that is just insulting XDDDDD



[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 18:40:29 UTC 2 years ago

I think Orihime's an awesome character whether she ever 'kicks ass' or not. Kicking ass isn't the point of her character. But yes, I've seen a great deal of IchiHime fans that want her to kick ass and want her self-esteem to get better, specifically because the story has set up that it's going to happen. I know I'd be sincerely disappointed if, after the Hueco Mundo arc, she went up to Urahara and was like "Yeah, you know what? You were right, I'm not cut out for this, I'm going to home to have babies and watch daytime TV".

Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaame about Ulquiorra, too. I love what he was in the manga. I love that he realized what was special about the human heart before he died. I don't love the Ulquiorra in Leather Pants that it seems like fandom wants to push onto us.

See, I could never care enough about Edward/Bella to ship it? But it irritates me that comparing something to Twilight is a quick way to baselessly insult it.

[info]alice_candy

January 24 2010, 15:34:48 UTC 2 years ago

*le gasp!*

this is such a fun thing to read. and wow. i especially like the strawman 1. very true XD

and gosh, about Ulquiorra (i can feel Copper's eyes on me....XDD) i never liked or liked this guy. however, ever since i met a 'certain special someone', every time i see/read this guy and UlquiHime, i was reminded of this 'special someone' and i began to feel irritated not because i disliked the character/pair per se, but because SHE ships it. XDD

amazing essay, btw. XD

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 18:45:36 UTC 2 years ago

Thanks!

Yeah, I feel the same way about UlquiHime - it wasn't the pairing itself that bugged me. The pairing has the potential to be kind of hot if done properly. It was the vocal fans, the fans who insist that it's canon, the fans that insist he's coming back for their ship, the fans that insist Orihime is worthless without Ulquiorra, and the fans that deride IchiHime fans for their 'crack ship'. It's not just one 'special someone', there are a bunch of them.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Deleted comment

[info]chipsforjustice

January 24 2010, 16:20:23 UTC 2 years ago

ilu~ <3 This was amazing. XD (I even told my mom about it and she totally thought those points the IchiRuki/UlquiHime peoples think are insane *adds to memories* :D

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 18:47:16 UTC 2 years ago

A lot of them bug me because they're non points. Liking Disney movies isn't a crime. Liking Twilight isn't a crime. Not having a college degree doesn't mean you're stupid. Being girly doesn't set feminism back 100 years.

Uhu, thank you! ♥

[info]bitter_tea

January 24 2010, 16:30:29 UTC 2 years ago

There's a lot of "I think his story's done" and "he just didn't appeal to me" and "he had an awful lot of time spent on him in the story", but no "I hate him, I'm glad he's dead, baww" that I can see.

Good, because if there was, I would have deleted it. Just as I did a few times on the "Is Ulquiorra redeemed?" thread, where I warned to not just state that you don't like him and are glad that he's dead and deleted those comments from posters that did say that.

I find character bashing to be annoying simply because they're fictional characters, and I don't understand how anyone can have the energy to feel anything beyond indifference. And I try to be good about deleting it on FLOL because I know it gives us a bad name, even though it's a semi-locked forum.

Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English.

I always hated this for the insinuation that you need an English degree and correct understanding of literature to read...a comic book made for boys who are about 8-15 (of course there are older readers and non-male readers, but the seinen demographic generally starts to veer off for those in their late teens and girls who read shonen in Japan are considered strange).

It's not supposed to be that complicated as a story. Does Kubo throw in symbolism that may go over those readers' heads? Yes. But by and large, the stuff that matters is made pretty damn clear.


But, you know, I don't hate shippers, because they're real people. I just make unfair generalizations about who they are and what they think based on what a few people like and think.

My counter to that statement is that I don't hate ships or shippers, I just hate how people ship things. If you use a coupling of fictional character to justify acting like a pretentious, smug, boob, then I'm just not going to like you.

[info]giethe

January 24 2010, 16:40:24 UTC 2 years ago

girls who read shonen in Japan are considered strange

OT, but actually we did a research on shounen manga fanbase and having a large female fanbase isn't strange anymore. In fact, one of the main complaints about shounen manga (particularly WSJ) is how it caters to girls so much more these days. The really taboo sight is a male reading shoujo manga, because they're a lot more biased about not looking macho and coming off as a pervert because "venturing into the girls' world is dangerous" (no really, that's what most of the interviewees, even old men, answered).

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]giethe

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]giethe

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]dncarolyn

January 24 2010, 18:01:33 UTC 2 years ago

ffff, this is one of the best essays I have read in a long time. Thank you so much for putting it together! Even my neutral friends who read this (and I did spam my entire MSN page with this link, believe you me) were seriously impressed :D Amazing job!

/was going to post a better response but 100% of it would have been "Agreed!" anyways

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 18:53:37 UTC 2 years ago

Oh, thank you! I'm mostly like ♥♥♥ because they liked my writing ahaha, I'm weird.

[info]shotglass

January 24 2010, 18:04:06 UTC 2 years ago

I'm not even in this ship, but eeeeee, this does make me like it a bit more~ Very well-put-together essay, enjoyable read, and enlightening, especially regarding the character archetypes. I had no idea that Ichigo was, technically, meant to have it as a flaw to be a Determinator. And I love that I've only seen scattered episodes and read little snippets of the manga and still knew most of what you're talking about. My, this series does get around.

Also, why is a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity important to YOU? /shot

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 19:04:06 UTC 2 years ago

It's not so much that he's a Determinator as it is that he tries to 'hog all the fights', basically, to protect all his friends when they don't need protecting. The latest instance of him getting scolded for it is here, where he tries to fight on behalf of a dozen Captains and Vizards. Renji also scolds him for being overly solicitous of his friends (in particular of Rukia).

And OMG I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED. :D I was waiting for someone to!

Basically, as water heats up, the molecules inside move farther away from each other. Because water is used to slow down (attenuate) the neutrons that are used in nuclear fission, water molecules that are farther apart take longer to hit. Since the neutrons need to be at a certain speed to cause the fission, if the water is too hot - the molecules are too far apart - the neutrons will be too slow to cause fission. Likewise, if the water is too cold, it'll cause too many neutrons to attenuate and cause a spike in power.

What then happens is that as reactor power rises, the water cooling the core heats up and the molecules get farther apart, thus driving down the power after a while before it settles out into a steady power level. So it makes less power the hotter it gets. This bell curve is basically what gives us the negative temperature coefficient of reactivity, meaning that the reactor is inherently stable because power will drop on its own and level out without the operator doing anything.

Conversely, a reactor with a positive temperature coefficient of reactivity will create more fission as the water/moderator gets hotter. Chernobyl was a positive alpha-t reactor, if that's any indication of exactly how bad an idea that is. Constant operator attention is required to keep the core from overheating and melting.

[info]giethe

2 years ago

[info]giethe

2 years ago

[info]giethe

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

January 24 2010, 18:39:56 UTC 2 years ago

Strawman #5: IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English.

This, so so so so so much. I'm impartial to anything, good or bad, that makes it necessary to undermine other people's ability to comprehend anything.

Overall great read, as always, and you know I'll always be a fan of yours.

It's bribe. Anybody can totally see it.

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 19:07:23 UTC 2 years ago

a;ksdjskj a fan! ♥

I'm so, so tired of seeing people flash college degrees as a sign they know how to read a comic book aimed at teenaged boys. To tell the truth, it reminds me of my mother and law lording her RN over me as a teenager because she went to ~college~. It's like, that's nice lady, I'm going to learn how to work a reactor, you have fun changing bedpans, kay?

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]bitter_tea

2 years ago

[info]fashi0n_mistake

January 24 2010, 19:36:41 UTC 2 years ago

*grins* I love you so much for writing this. You did a lovely lovely job with this. Is it all right if I pimp it out?

Also, I'm saving this in my memories ;D

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 19:50:46 UTC 2 years ago

Yay! Thank you! And yes, go ahead and pimp!

[info]littlemissnight

January 24 2010, 22:42:50 UTC 2 years ago

Well written!

This was extremely well done, and all the points you made hit the nail right on the head so to speak.

The only point that people make about us IchiHime fans that bothers me the most is, "IchiHime Shippers lack reading comprehension skills because they lack college degrees in English".

Someone actually threw that at me once and I was stunned, I need a degree in English in order to fully understand and comprehend Bleach, a Japanese manga? Oh, and I was also told I can't make correct literary analysis's because of it. And, shockingly enough, the person was an UlquiHime supporter to the max and despised IchiHime.

Awesome, right?

Give or take, i'm rather young, and haven't even entered college yet but I plan on becoming a Forensic Scientist, but alas, it seems i'll never understand Bleach without that English degree.

[info]crystaldawn

January 24 2010, 22:50:37 UTC 2 years ago

Thanks!

Eh heh, thank you!

And yeah, that one bothers me quite a bit. A degree in English doesn't help you understand Japanese culture, doesn't help you understand shounen series in general, and sure doesn't help you read manga better than anyone else. I get being proud of your degree or your chosen profession - I really do - but when you go around acting like yours is better than everyone else's, that's bound to grate on people.

(and somehow, that doesn't surprise me. What was it Katt Williams said? Haters don't hate you, haters hate good shit, because they wanted good shit and it didn't happen to them)

Forensic Science? Better give that shit up right now if you ever wanna read shounen manga correctly!

[info]hatsu_gekkani

January 24 2010, 23:22:39 UTC 2 years ago

All I can say is thank you for posting this :) All this stereotyping is ridiculous and it needs to stop. Sometimes it gets downright hurtful (I'm sure, for both sides)... which is kind of sad since it's based on fiction lol.

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 01:42:27 UTC 2 years ago

Yeah, it's - being angry over who a fictional character is or should be banging is kind of a waste of time and energy, you know?

[info]crienselt

January 24 2010, 23:47:08 UTC 2 years ago

As a rule, I’m a lurker, but I just wanted to emerge to applaud you and your essay! Very well said! I wonder what is to be done with the Ichihime shippers that do have BAs and even graduate degrees in Literature? Guess those should be sent back to their respective universities accompanied with an explanation that they are being returned due to their failure to prepare their recipients for the proper reading of manga?

Also, bravo for your discussion of feminism! It is such misunderstood term/concept, and people seem to throw it around without really having a clue. The side-shipping thing is a pet-peeve of mine too. Renji/Rukia has been and always will be my Bleach OTP and I resent the implication that it is anything but! I do join you with lol-ing at the Twilight comparison. I’ve never read it and have no intention of doing so anytime soon, but I find it hilarious that it has become the new go to insult in shipping wars in general. Want to discredit a ship? Compare it to Twilight and it will become an instant fandom pariah! Genius! (...I’m not sure whether I even mean that sarcastically or not...)

But, um, yeah, go you!

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 01:50:14 UTC 2 years ago

I'm sure there are some, so maybe they should ask for their money back? Go back and do over? Not quite sure there!

And thank you - it's something that bugs me, because I've been reading and studying feminism for a while now, and not just claiming the term in a fandom capacity, so to see people that have such a poor understanding of the term throw it out there like a badge of honor is irritating. It's like, I'm glad you identify as one, but you need to do a little more research on the subject, because the old "Can I Be A Housewife?" debate has been going on since the 70s.

And oh lord, Twilight bashing. I see so few Twilight fans around on LJ and so much bashing that it's pretty obvious that it's only being done a lot of the time to get popularity points. It's obnoxious.

Deleted comment

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 01:54:12 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  January 25 2010, 01:54:36 UTC

Aww, thanks Copper! ♥

Yeah, I was really surprised when I first started kicking around FLOL because I'd heard so much bad stuff being flung at IchiHime shippers in general. And then, after I got settled in, I'm still surprised whenever I see someone behaving badly. Every fandom has immature fans that just haven't grown up yet - I think we usually keep a good rein on ours, though.

But yes, we definitely don't make huge essays tearing down ships we don't like. There's no point - we got what we got from canon, why do we need to cry about what the other kids get? Shippers we don't like, maybe, but those usually get f-locked. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with flocking wanky shit. That's what flock is FOR. And, you know, there might be stuff I don't want random surfers to look at under there. :| JUST MAYBE.

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[info]enelya87

2 years ago

[info]enelya87

2 years ago

[info]enelya87

2 years ago

[info]enelya87

January 25 2010, 00:39:00 UTC 2 years ago

Oh wow I love this so, so much. Thank you oodles for writing it (and so well written too). Even though you're the one writing, I feel like I've gotten a load off my chest myself xD It's beyond frustrating to be falsely accused of this stuff.

So much word on all this. And especially that feminist bit had me just about standing up and cheering.

Feminism is loving and celebrating every woman, regardless of how girly, weak, or inferior we think she is. Regardless of how misogynist we may think she is. She is a woman, therefore she is 'good enough'.

Amen sistah.

And omg I loled so hard at this: He also doesn't sparkle like a Lisa Frank unicorn on the fourth of July

xDD And wow I'd totally forgotten about Lisa Frank! She was such a big part of my trippy childhood!

*added to memories~*

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 01:58:42 UTC 2 years ago

HOW COULD YOU FORGET LISA FRANK!? She makes the best Trapper Keepers on EARTH!

The whole annoying "you're too girly, YOU'RE BOWING TO THE PATRIARCHY" tripe that I see out there a lot is pretty much a rookie mistake in feminism, and one that I've had people tell me turned them off from being feminists in the first place. It also creates an environment where femme!lesbians are discriminated against easily, both by straight and lesbian feminists, for not looking 'lesbian' enough. It sucks when a stupid trope extends to start discrediting your very sexuality.

[info]enelya87

2 years ago

[info]codegal182

January 25 2010, 00:40:21 UTC 2 years ago

Oh my goodness, this is sooooooooo much awesomeness. XDDDD Totally saving this. ;D

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 01:59:32 UTC 2 years ago

Eh heh, thank you! Us speshul snowflakes gotta stick together, right?

[info]codegal182

2 years ago

[info]codegal182

2 years ago

[info]sarajayechan

January 25 2010, 00:55:36 UTC 2 years ago

*wild massive round of applause*

He also doesn't sparkle like a Lisa Frank unicorn on the fourth of July, but that's neither here nor there, is it?

Sparkly!Ichigo would be good for some lulz, though! XD And #7, what's with people? Have they never heard of a little thing called Ship Mates?

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 02:06:27 UTC 2 years ago

It makes me want to write fic of him being a sparklepire. It would be tounge-in-cheek and horrible.

Man, you'd think not, huh? Or that it's very common across pretty much all fandoms with more than one pairing possible? Out of all the fandoms I've been in there, have always been multiple, complimentary pairings for all of them. Lina/Gourry? Goes great with Zel/Ame and Xel/Fil! Yousuke/Momoko? Then you'll also like Limone/Lily and Hinagiku/Takarou! Pairing up two of the Weiß boys? The other two will then be paired up with each other! Change them around for fun and interesting combinations, or pair the other two with a girl for a change of pace!

I'm also kind of baffled at the insistence that RenRuki is such a flimsy ship that we're just doing it because we're threatened by Rukia when... uhh... Renji being in love with Rukia is canon? It's like calling IchiHime a crack ship - dude, one half of the ship is in love with the other, I'm not exactly seeing the 'crack' here.

[info]hinoai

January 25 2010, 02:13:58 UTC 2 years ago

I had no idea that fandom was still this serious! =D I never really got into the Bleach fandom, but I have always loved Ichihime. Mainly because I worship Orihime, I guess! =D

[info]crystaldawn

January 25 2010, 03:19:26 UTC 2 years ago

Fandom? Pssh, that shit is totes srs bznss!

[info]erisalia

January 25 2010, 03:14:33 UTC 2 years ago

I see we both love twilight! I as an ichiruki person have enjoyed it myself.

But there are a number of fans as of late from the ichihime ship who are telling ichirukiers to "slit their wrists" and other rather aggressive remarks elsewhere. There has been all out bashing on both sides here, ichiruki included.

As for some things I think you guys need to focus on is the dome. Its the most controversial scene. Yet I have yet to hear a seriously valid interpretation of that scene from an ichihime shipper.Especially when the original japanese text from ichigo was :

Calling, I can hear, stand, stand up, I will, I will protect

I tend to see it more skimmed over. Nor can I understand why people cant see this for what it is. Bad. Ichigo himself was mortified as was orihime. If the characters themselves are distraught over this then why arent fans recognizing this for what it is?

[info]alienashi

January 25 2010, 03:28:22 UTC 2 years ago

But there are a number of fans as of late from the ichihime ship who are telling ichirukiers to "slit their wrists" and other rather aggressive remarks elsewhere. There has been all out bashing on both sides here, ichiruki included.

I'm not going to make a comparisons on how much we have called each other names, but I think [info]crystaldawn was not saying that our side is equal. There are certain things about this side of the fandom that get miscontrued, thus the clarification. Whether you agree is another problem, but if we are really going to make comparisons it will go nowhere.

As for some things I think you guys need to focus on is the dome. Its the most controversial scene.

I think you kinda missed the point? What she was saying for the entire essay did nothing to justify what IchiHime fans stand for, but the misunderstandings upon them. What we should be concentrating might be something that is of another time, but for now? She's trying to tell you what are the common generalizations that get stamped on us with no concrete reason whatsoever.

[info]alienashi

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

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